Hugh is a busy guy. Not only is he constantly scribbling out new drawings for his collection he is also a marketing strategist for Stormhoek, a small South African vineyard, whose sales have increased five-fold over a 2 year period thanks to blogging and a Web 2.0 approach to marketing. I would happily comment on their quality, but I don’t drink. (anymore) Sorry Hugh.

My interview with Hugh is an excellent example of quality over quantity. The interview, thought still 5 questions, is short, sweet and to the point. Hugh has a way of saying a lot in very few words.

#1

jemmille.com: I love your quote, “Question how much freedom your path affords you. Be utter ruthless about it. It’s your freedom that will get you where you want to go.” How have you used this in your life? What paths have you followed to allow yourself as much freedom as possible?

Hugh MacLeod: I suppose the biggest tip is, I learned how to live frugally. Not having monthly car payments on a brand new Mercedes gave me a lot more options.

#2

jemmille.com: Your “cartoons drawn on the back of business cards” have gained quite a reputation. Hundreds (thousands?) of sites display your images via your Widget or direct link. I even use one of your images on the back of my business card. When/How/Why did you start doing this?

Hugh Macleod: Basically, I found the format very liberating. A. They were cheap. B. They were easy to carry around [unlike huge canvases or whatever] C. Becasue they were only wee doodles on the back of business cards, it didn’t matter if they were good or not. That was very liberating.

#3

jemmille.com: Recently you said, “Five years of blogging later, I have learned this to be true: Traffic doesn’t matter. Being linked to by A-Listers matters even less. What matters most is building one’s network, one person at a time. As Adriana says, “The Network is mightier than The Node”.” You seem to have made friends with many people throughout the industry. As I try to build my network by engaging people like you in conversation, what tips can you give others to build their network?

Hugh Macleod: Two tips: Be patient. It took me six years to build my “network” up. Secondly, try to meet up with as many people in real life as you can. People are much more wiling to help each other out, once there’s been offline meetings. Blogging confabs and conferences are great for this. So are geek dinners.

#4

jemmille.com: From what I have gathered, you are a strong beleiver in the “Humanifcation of Business”. I couldn’t agree with you more. Business that pay more attention to the customer and not how fast they can sell you a product are hard to find in this day-and-age. Could you expand on this idea for the jemmille.com audience?

Hugh Macleod: The basic thing is, for 250 years we’ve been doing mass-produced. Anything that can be commodified, has been. Where companies can grow is in the human dimension. Apple is a good example of this. They just sell laptops etc. But people feel like they’re so much more than that. Why?

#5

jemmille.com: What’s next for Hugh MacLeod? Any upcoming speaking engagements?

Hugh Macleod: I get asked to speak all the time, but most of my time is spent on my day job[s], selling suits, wine and software.

#1

jemmille.com: The name John Chow has come to be associated closely associated with making money online. Many people don’t know that you take the money you make from JohnChow.com and donate it to charities (right?) What charities are at the top of your list to support?

John Chow: Yes I donate the net income of John Chow dot Com to charities. I have placed a cap of $10,000 on blog donation however. Anything above that goes to a trust fund for my daughter. I give to a charity that helps children and strengthen the family unit. I believe many of the problems facing America today comes from the break down in the family unit. This year, the list of charities receiving contribution include The Union Gospel Mission, Unicef, The United Way, and BC Children’s Hospital. There are others but that’s all I can think off the top of my head.

#2

jemmille.com: You have been banned from Digg.com, been accused of “googlebombing” certain keywords for rankings, and your Technorati account was frozen for some time. What is it about John Chow (or johnchow.com) that causes so many people to react in a way that is unfavorable to you?
John Chow: I am not exactly sure. It may have something to do with comments that I came out of no where and now I’m among the biggest personal blogs on the Net. I guess people want to see you pay your dues before you are allowed into the “elite group.” The thing is, I’ve paid dues. I maybe fairly new to blogging but I’m been making money on the web since 1999. I survived a dot com crash.

Another thing that has created negative reactions is my bluntness. I post that trading hours for dollars (working at a job) is the stupidest thing in the world to do. If you’re making a living by working, that may not sit too well. I guess I’m a love me or hate me kinda person.

#3

jemmille.com: You recently joined up with Kontera In-Text advertising to allow sites that get less than the 500,000 monthly hits usually required to use the service. How did this deal come to fruition and what benefit does it have for you and the small publishers that will sign up?

John Chow: Kontera contacted me about the partnership. They’ve done very well for themselves serving their ads to content based sites but they never made a big move on bloggers. Since my blog is read by a lot of bloggers the partnership was a good fit. I received a referral fee from Kontera for sending bloggers their way. It’s not different than an affiliate program like Text Link Ads. So far, the partnership has done well. Kontera has received over 400 applications since I posted it.

#4

jemmille.com: Your first venture into the online world was Moto’s Project 504, now known as www.thetechzone.com. Could you tell us a little more about this “other side” of John Chow and how/if your inspiration for johnchow.com was influenced by what you learned from thetechzone.com?

John Chow: On The TechZone, everyone knows me as “Moto.” It’s my nickname. I’m now slowly trying to replace the nickname with just John Chow because I want to brand my name. I would say I’m much better known on the tech side than I am on the blogging side because TTZ has been around for so long. I used all the traffic building experience I gained from running TTZ to building my blog. Getting traffic to a blog isn’t much different than getting traffic to a normal content site.

#5

jemmille.com: What’s next for John Chow?

John Chow: Right now I’m working on revamping the ad engine for TTZ Media. That’s my comparison shopping ad network. You can see the ads running at the end of my blog posts. The new engine will allow me to accept affiliates with a lower traffic level. Right now TTZ Media requires 250,000 page views per month. I will be able to lower that to about 10,000 per month with the new system. Hopefully, it’ll be out of beta next month.

If you enjoyed this interview read the others here. Thanks John!

Steve has played an important role in the world of blogging. At Edelman he is charged with “helping to identify, test, incubate and champion new forms of communications that get people talking across new platforms and channels.” One of these forms of communication is blogging. He has helped many big name companies (Wal-Mart for one) use blogs as a way to increase visibility both in the digital world and brick-and-mortar scenarios.

#1

jemmille.com: You have become quite the blogging expert. Your move to Edelman was for the sole purpose of teaching them and their clients to use blogs more effectively. How did you become such an authority in this arena?

Steve Rubel: Although I first became well known as an expert on blogging, my move to Edelman is about much much more.

The public relations business is undergoing tremdous change. To help Edelman keep ahead of the curve, the firm set up a specialized group called me2revolution. Our charter is to develop new products, processes and best practices that support the teams. In addition, it’s to evangelize and educate clients and teams on how to effectively utilize new media in PR. Blogs are one tent pole, but there’s more. The tools and channels are dynamic, but the underlying trends are evergreen. People will use technology to communicate. Therefore PR is always going to be changing. Further, the world is recognizing that PR can lead in the marketing mix.

#2

jemmille.com: I noticed you are a Twitter user. I have certain feelings towards Twitter that I have disclosed on my site, but I was wondering – What is your take on this new phenomenon?

Steve Rubel: I find Twitter extremely interesting. In particular, the conversations are incredibly fast paced. The integration with quick tools like SMS and IM make this go, as does the 160-character format. It’s just what a time-starved world needs. It remains to be seen if Twitter is a fad or something bigger. The landscape is filled with sites that were supposed to be the next big thing. I like to focus on the trend – mobile.

#3

jemmille.com: Can you give the jemmille.com readers a taste of what is coming up next in the blogsphere? Are there any new trends or “must have” tech that you see on the blogging horizon?

Steve Rubel: The blogosphere is maturing. It’s out of beta. So, I am looking out on the horizon. One of the things I am most excited about is Open TV. For years only the big media could afford to create content for television. The distribution costs were (and still largely are) too high. However, millions of people are going to add one or more set-top boxes. These will pipe in content from off the Internet and not just from the pros. I am already watching 720p podcasts from off the Internet on my Apple TV. I also rent movies on on my Xbox 360. (Xbox is a client). Magical things will happen when people realize they can get on TV without going on American Idol. We need more users first, then the content will be there.

#4

jemmille.com: In a 2004 article by the New York Times, it was said “Agencies with blogs , though, are in a minority. For many, particularly the large networks, the potential risks still outweigh the benefits.” How has this changed since the publication of this article and how much of that change was a direct result of your work?

Steve Rubel: A lot has changed. Agencies realized that to be maintain their visibility online they need to participate in blogs and other new media channels and as actively and as credibly as possible. They also need to do good work there. Many ad agencies today are now joining the dialogue. I don’t think it had anything to do with me, though. It was more about a sweeping social change.

#5

jemmille.com: What’s next for Steve Rubel?

Steve Rubel: My dream is that public relations becomes the lead discipline that marketers turn to in the mix. This means that PR in the future will incorporate what it looks like now but go even broader. Digital is going to flatten the marketing landscape in our favor. The biz is moving that way and Edelman is leading the charge, but we have a long way to go. That’s what keeps me working pretty much around the clock. I may soon add a video podcast and I am talking to publishers about a book. For more, read this column.

#1

jemmille.com: You were making money online far before shoemoney.com became a top blogging destination. In fact, shoemoney.com is more of an outlet for your experiences in business, not an attempt to create revenue. Are you surprised by the response and huge number of daily readers you have acquired? Did they just start coming or did you advertise?

Jeremy: I am really amazed at the popularity of the blog. I never planned that. The Adsense check has been posted all over the internet and people use it linking to my site which brings most of the users. (Note: You wanna see it? Click here.) That page of my site is the most visited. I do have adwords going but only for the keyword “shoemoney” and its just to demonstrate a ppc technique I use called the bold arrow.

#2

jemmille.com: Your new venture, AuctionAds, Inc., has gotten a warm welcome and tons of affiliates. Did you expect to receive such a big response? Are your investments already paying off?

Jeremy: Yes we knew AuctionAds would be successful although 7500 users the first month was about 7x the success I was planning on. It really was kind of a no brainer. Take the payouts from one of the most lucrative affiliate programs yet give users a easy to use cut and paste code.

As far as investments paying off we are passing on 100% of the revenue we are getting so it will be a long time before the investment is paid off . Unlike most companies we have zero development cost. Just bandwidth and servers (which really is a small cost). Our focus is 100% on growth since that will lead to higher payouts for our users. (Note: If you want to sign up, click”Ads by AuctionAds” on the ad on the right.)

#3

jemmille.com: In an earlier e-mail, you mentioned Review Exchange. You told me, “Instead of money it will work off of a point system. Like you get points for doing reviews then you can buy reviews with points etc…” Can you add anything more to this? Do you have a roll-out date?

Jeremy: Well, our main focus is AuctionAds right now. Also we are taking over Matt-hughes.com and redoing his site in the next few months. Between those 2 the resources of dillsmack and myself are pretty exhausted. I definitely want to do review exchange but i also have about 9 other things I want to do I am in no rush. There are many review services out there but none like what I want to do. Kind of like there was 7 different Auctionads type programs that attempted to do what we are doing but they never got off the ground. (Note: You heard it here first! Be on the lookout for the Review Exchange.)

#4

jemille.com: The Elite Retreat is a way for people like me to have one-on-one time with people that have experience in the industry. How did this idea come about? Is there any sign of interest dropping or is demand getting higher?

Jeremy: Lee Dodd approached me with the idea asking if we could go back to when we were getting started how great would it have been to be able to talk to someone where we are at now and use there contacts and experience to get ahead. I really liked the idea and we sought out other speakers/leaders. The San Fran event had 2x the attendance of the first one and I expect our next one to sell out.

#5

jemmille.com: Online, millions of people know your name. Has this web-celebrity transfered to the public sector? Are you recognized and/or bothered by fans as you try to shop, relax, etc?

Jeremy: Nobody has any clue who I am locally and I like that. Every once in a while, someone on a plane or in a airport will recognize me. That is weird but it’s cool.

While your on the sidebar, don’t forget about the jemmille.com Tag Line contest.  It is an easy way to win an iPod.  All you need to do is submit your best tag line for jemmille.com to promotions@jemmille.com.  Click here for the rules.

Arron Wall is the leading expert in the field of Search Engine Optimization (SEO). His book, entitled SEOBook, is the #1 ranked book on SEO and has sold thousands upon thousands of copies and has been used as a textbook in graduate level marketing classes. His site, SEOBook.com, is ranked 179 on Technorati and his receives more daily traffic that problogger.net and shoemoney.com. (Sorry Darren and Jeremy)

I was lucky enough to talk with him and get his insight into SEO and his personal feelings on a few related subjects. Enjoy.

#1

jemmille.com: You say on your website, “I know the world is much larger than I or the US, but I only started to do well as I stopped listening to what leaders told me, and fell out of the social framework and rat race most people are stuck in.” What changes did you make and how did they lead to you writing the SEOBook ?

Aaron: The biggest changes were just not listening to naysayers and believing that if I did what I was interested in eventually money and happiness and all that stuff would work itself out. The first version of my ebook was trivial and not very good, but over time I kept learning and due to my continued study of the topic and many iterative revisions the book got a lot better over time.

#2

jemmille.com: You are only a year older than me and that leads me to wonder how someone so young has become the leading expert a topic that has become SO important for any person trying to “make it” on the web. Where did you start your research? Did you learn by trial and error based on your own experiences.

Aaron: I read books on all sorts of marketing topics, went to conferences, participated in forums, moderated forums, created content sites, tested stuff (ie create content and build links and see what happened), blogged, and have many good friends who are smarter than I am…we learn a lot from each other.

Age really doesn’t matter that much on the web. Its more about having great marketing timing and just being passionate and working hard, IMHO. With the web if you are open to market feedback the market timing is always perfect for some idea. My mom had a strong work ethic and I am obsessive, so that is where the other bits come from.

#3

jemmille.com: Although you were know throughout the industry before 2005, your name shoot to the forefront when you were sued by Traffic Power. Although the case was dismissed, it created quite a stir among the blogging community for its potential implications regarding bad-mouthing people or companies on a personal website. What has happened since then, both personally and web-wide with regard to this issue?

Aaron: That lawsuit cost me about $40,000, which was my entire yearly income in 2004 or 2/3 of my income in 2005. That was a big risk, but some of my friends refused to let me back down, and it turned out well for me by giving me a lot more exposure. Since then I believe Traffic Power may have went out of business, and the domain name 1P.com was sold at auction for around $20,000 this year. I have also seen other companies try to bully some of my friends http://www.seobook.com/archives/001638.shtml and my friends did the same thing I did…fought it and won.

#4

jemmille.com: Am I correct in saying the SEOBook is available as an eBook only? If so, have you every thought about publishing a hard copy and then letting people get updates via your website until the next publication? Do you know what the average return-on-investment is for someone that buys your book?

Aaron: To the first question the answer is yes. I thought about it, but I still prefer the ebook version for the simplicity of only having one offering. Affiliate programs and site structure and all that stuff gets confusing if I have more offerings, and it is much harder to give the money back guarantee needed to move a good volume when you add physical inventory and shipping costs to the equation.

The average ROI is probably both skewed toward the edges and hard to know. Some people have called me and told me they quit their jobs to work on the web for themselves full time, others have paid me many thousands of dollars for site reviews, some have asked me to fly half way around the world to train their team or go party with them, and others have emailed asking for a refund.

A marketing book only has value if you read it, are willing to work hard, and keep experimenting and learning. I think some guides lead people astray while others try to help. Based on my low refund request rate I would guess that most people who find my book feel it provides good value to them.

#5

jemmille.com: What are your thoughts and feelings about using software like WebPosition and Internet Business Promoter (IBP) to increase your sites traffic? Are the really effective? What is your, if any, recommendation for analytics software?

Aaron: I think most SEO software that tries to do everything is not worth buying. I avoid the all in one tools, as I think they lead people astray. As far as analytics software goes, Google is nice if you don’t mind giving them your data.

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If you would like a copy of Aaron’s book, which I think every site owner or internet marketer should have, click here.

This is the first in a series of interviews with some of the top SEO experts and professional bloggers in the world. I will post a new “5 Questions With…” every 2-4 weeks. Digg! this for sure.